"The Reason for God" by Timothy Keller

I have been challenged by Tom to do a theist-atheist reading challenge: he will read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins if I'll likewise read "The Reason for God" by Timothy Keller. Well, he's cheating slightly by listening to the audio CD of the book. And I'm cheating more than slightly by watching Tim talk about his book on youtube: Authors@Google: Tim Keller - it's an hour long.

Here's how it goes:

Tim starts off saying atheists need to understand the reasons for God because Christian numbers are growing (in Korea and China) even as their technology levels increase (which he counts as evidence science does nothing to reduce faith) and atheists therefore need to respect religion or there will be trouble.

Is that a good reason to respect something? That it's growing? Let's picture Tim living in Germany about 70 years ago...

The Nazi movement is growing - Tim could even point to it's increasing popularity in places like Italy, England and Spain. I'm sure Tim would be advocating we show respect to Nazis 'or there will be trouble'.

Fuck that shit.

I will respect something if it deserves respect. Call me eccentric, but I have a problem with people who are into human sacrifice. I don't know what it is, but I just get all twitchy around folk who like to drink what they believe is human blood and eat what they believe is human flesh. Even the ones who are into the symbolic eating and drinking of human stuff are somewhat disturbing.

Before he gets to the 3rd reason, he elaborates a bit on the personal - we are more likely to believe what our chums believe so that we'll be accepted by them.

Fair enough. We're all sheep. Is that a reason for God?

Tim now talks about how an atheist might say to him, "If you'd been been brought up on Madagascar, you wouldn't be a Christian." Tim says the atheist would likely have different views if he'd been born there too.

Forgive me, but isn't he arguing for the atheist side now? ie: what we believe is based on our culture and not some universal truth. Anyway...

Tim gets to his last and 3rd reason: Oh, wait, he's split the last reason into 3 rungs, which he assures us we will climb:

1st rung: you realise it takes as much faith to disbelieve as to believe.
2st rung: you realise it takes more faith to disbelieve than to believe.
3rd rung: you realise you can reason to a point probability, but it takes personal commitent to believe.

Is anyone else feeling a woozy at this point? "Just relax while I repeatedly count to three... one, two... you're feeling very sleepy... when you wake up you will have a burning desire to go to any good book store near you..."

Seriously, does any of this strike you as cutting edge reasoning?

Anyway, he recommends we read his book where he goes into more detail (although I suspect that means even more steps of 3 to be counted). He quickly assures us this is not because he wants to sell his book. Or is it? Well he hopes it isn't.

Er... we're supposed to takes lessons on the reason for God from a guy who doesn't even know whether he's trying to shaft us into buying his new book or not?

Tim now goes into more detail about the 1st rung (you realise it takes as much faith to disbelieve as to believe): "All of the arguments that purport to prove there is no God, fall flat... If there's no way to prove there is no God..."

Wait for it folks...

"...and therefore there is a God..."

It's about 14:15 on the youtube video, check it out. Notice how he says it off-hand, as if he's saying something Universally obvious like "water is a liquid at room temperature". This is such a cheap mind-control trick. Watch any Derren Brown show and you'll see him do similar stuff.

"... then to live as if there's no God is an act of faith..."

Jesus Fucking H Christ. What can I say? I would say, 'you must be a halfwit to go for this idiocy', but clearly you don't.

"...Follow me?"

Most of the audience are probably in a trance by now and are re-living the moment they got a really bad Chinese burn in the playground at lunchtime. When they wake up they'll suddenly feel it's totally reasonable to sacrifice humans to gods.

He now starts to list all the efforts to disprove God that failed. 1) If there's evil in the world there can't be a nice God. Tick. 2) If there was a God how could his believers have done so much evil in the world? Tick. Gets in the false notion that atheism 'created' Stalin and Pol Pot. Tick. 3) It's impossible to know for certain if there is a God or not. Tick (his answer is a 'clever': it's impossible to know that it's impossible to know).

Hmm, he's starting to convince me I'm a gnostic atheist and not an agnostic atheist after all. Or am I?

Now he says that if we insist the burden of proof lies with the claimant that in itself is a massive leap of faith. His reasoning - because if God is not within the Universe, then we don't have to prove his existence.

Does that make any sense whatsoever?

Okay... Russians went up into space and declared they didn't find God. The only way Hamlet (us) would know about the existence of Shakespeare (God) is if he wrote something about himself into the play (the Bible). "And besides that, you can't prove anything... hardly... I could be a butterfly dreaming I'm man. The world could have come into existence 5 minutes ago... see, the philosophers know... you can't prove anything."

So the argument continues - if you can't prove there's no God, and you live your life as if there's no God, you have to admit that's a risk.

Fancy a Pascal's Wager anyone? They should market that as a biscuit, honestly. Tea and chocolate covered Pascal's Wager. Yum Yum.

OK, Tim, seeings as you can't prove anything... How about I invent a story where we were created by a supernatural underwear pervert (and, Tim, I have a feeling he specifically created you in his image)? This underwear pervert says 'if you don't wear your underwear on your head, I will strike you down with eternal pustulance'.

Tim, you can't PROVE the Supreme Underwear Pervert doesn't exist, so if you don't wear your underwear in the Holy way, you're taking an almighty risk.

(It's at this point that Christains claim I am just being silly whereas they are trying to be serious, and because they are trying to be serious they must be taken seriously, no?)

Apparently, if you're with Tim on this bullshit, you've hit rung 1 on the way to God-bothering. If not - you're not even on rung 1. See how he's making it sound like bad thing. "Oh man, you haven't even made it to rung 1 - unlucky buddy. Keep working at it."

I think we'll leave rung 2 until tomorrow. I bet you can't wait.

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I'm an Agnostic Atheist

I've been trying to tell you guys this for years but you wouldn't have it.

Here is a splendid explanation.

Those Christian Nihilists

God is Great.
God creates Man.
God is Great.

Therefore, Man has no meaningful purpose.


wikipedia: Nihilism (from the Latin nihil, nothing) is a philosophical position which argues that existence is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.

What is the use of morality if, ultimately, it has no effect? If we believe some Christians, the Universe is some kind of game whereby His creations try to make it through His morality filter system into His 'nice' room. It's a bit like the TV show The Apprentice, with God playing the Sir Alan role. Hired people get to spend eternity on the holy yacht, fired people get to spend eternity drinking foul tasting mugs of tea in the greasy-spoon cafe called Hell.

If we believe other Christians, there's no filter system at all. God has already chosen those lucky creations who will make it into His 'nice' room. I can't think of a more nihilistic vision of life - there's nothing you can do, folks, it's just a matter of waiting for God to open the golden envelope at the end of time and announce the winners:

"And the award for the seventy four thousand, nine hundred and sixty third most deserving of a place in Heaven goes to... Mr F H Merflplonk."

When Christians claim atheists are nihilists, they're confusing the word 'meaningful' with 'longer'.

When you point this out to a Christian, they are beside themselves with mirth at your stupidity. It's as if you've claimed up is down and down is inside-out. "HAHAHAHAHA!" they guffaw, clutching their sides, "It's the atheists who are the spoilsports. It's common knowledge. Ask anyone."

The fact is, much of what a Christian understands of the world comes from "common knowledge". Things like: 'Homosexuality is wrong. Ask Ted at the Bull & Monarch. He'll set you straight.'

Religion shamelessly appeals to the popularity of 'common knowledge': "Pigs are dirty animals and therefore God would not have wanted us to eat them", "Witches are agents of the Devil himself and God would most certainly have wanted us to set fire to them", "Woman are confusing and should be locked out of harms way as often as possible".

Sorry, Christians, but your 'common knowledge' logic doesn't have a great track record. You are nihilists and your book of 1st century peasant catch-phrases provides no meaning for our existence. It's nothing more than a longwinded manifesto on wish fulfillment - "You will have life after death. But while you're here, have fun throwing heavy objects at gays and whores and stuff".

To have peace and love preached to us by the same folk who went on the Crusades isn't even funny. I can get the concepts of 'peace' and 'love' without standing in some depressing, draughty old building listening to some grey-haired choirboy-fondler mumbling about some ancient Palestinian or other.

You claim I am the nihilist. Then show me the evidence that you are not.

Ironic Google Searches Awards

And the winner goes to....

"DEFINITION OF INCOMPITENT"



*I have no idea why this search should lead anyone to Life, the Universe and Everything (of course it makes sense now).