Had a discussion with someone yesterday - he says the problem with Dawkins is he uses logic to attack faith, which is futile and pointless: they are two entirely different things which cannot be mixed. Logic is oil to the water of faith.
Surely, I said, Dawkins only uses logic against the logic used by those who wish to promote their faith. It's not like god-people just state vaguely they believe in this indescribable being for reasons which they cannot put into words.
What Dawkins does is use sound logic to expose the flawed logic used by people to aquire their faith in the first place.
Besides, one man's 'faith' is another man's 'insanity'.
This argument is not new, but let's say I believe I am Napoleon. Not just any Napoleon but the Napoleon. I have total faith that I am the great Corsican general, reincarnate.
Now, I want my faith to be respected. If you don't go along with my faith, I'm going to accuse you of blasphemy against my sacred person. No sniggering now.
My faith also says everyone must wear strawberry-flavoured underwear. If you don't wear it, you are a sinner in my eyes and the 13 minute old book which I use as a map to life says you must have your genitals scorched daily until you agree to wear strawberry-flavoured underwear.
I didn't say it, the prophet Noobleflaps said it. And if he said it, then... you know the rest.
OK, God-people, this is what your "faith" sounds like to the non-believer.
And we're supposed to respect your "faith" and keep quiet lest you are offended.
Just because people have spent the last 2000 years building fucking-great buildings at huge expense devoted to him doesn't make your prophet any more sensible than Noobleflaps.
But of course, to you, your prophet is very very sensible and not at all like Noobleflaps. And you have some mighty long-winded logic to explain why.
And this is where people like Dawkins come in.
Monday, January 28, 2008
Logic vs Faith
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4 comments:
If you believe in noobleflaps - you're crazy.
If you get a dozen or so people to believe in noobleflaps - you're a cult.
But if you get 1000 people to believe - you're a religion.
It's just a numbers game, really.
Very true.
Interesting commentary.
The difficulty is, there's a mystery to life that we don't often talk about because it's tedious to talk about a question which has no satisfactory answer, so people express it in music, literature, comedy, art, cartoons, etc.
This means I'm not going to be haranguing religious acquaintances any time soon. I know someone who holds the firm conviction that her car parking spaces are to be found by faith in the provenance of a higher power. I might think 'Yikes!', but I'll look the other way.
I think religion necessitates strong criticism when it starts interfering in non-believers lives. Religion still permeates every area of our lives to the extent that people perceive hostility towards religion as a form of racism.
When the nauseating Tony Blair excuses his calamitous military endeavours, he talks about doing what he thinks is right, about him only knowing what he believes. Respect for belief as a virtue in itself is dangerous. History shows that people tend to die in great numbers when messianic visionaries are in charge of things.
Cheers -
Richard.
Logic V Faith reminds me of Faith v Knowledge.
From the pulpit a firey sermon about "Faith" in Jesus and the sure "knowledge" of life ever after had Mr Brown somewhat confused so he stuck his hand up and asked "what's the difference between Faith and Knowledge"
The Minister said - let me give you an example -- Mr Brown - you have 3 children - 2 boys and a girl is that right? Yes said Brown, Are they YOUR's Mr Brown, Yes replied Brown again, Ok said the Minister that's Faith, so now MRS Brown how many children do you have. 3 Mrs Brown replied, and are they YOURS Mrs Brown. Yes of course she replied. Well see - Thats Knowledge said the minister.
Of course this really has nothing whatso ever to do with religion.
Its about knowledge is power. Its like THESE are you kids so provide for them etc. bad example perhaps but religion is about power.
As I get on through my life I get ( for lack of a better word) depressed - or am I scared- that I dont believe in "life after death" an oxymoron in itself ranking with "Government Organisation". And without such a belief it would be very easy ( as many do) go of the rails and go raping, pillaging and plundering - or simply to run amok and try to satisfy ones baser carnal desires.
So for the weak amongst us ( are we all?) religion is introduced with a basic tenet of "be a good lad or GOD will get you if your not, and you won't like what he has in mind for you".
I used to think that dumb people ( sorry I know that's not politically correct) umm err - intelectually challenged people - were of the religous "easily" persuaded" group. I no longer believe that -
Age begats wisdom - not true - there are some really stupid old dump farts out there ( here as well) that simply believe things that defy rational logical thought process. But heck they seem to be quite happy about that.
Its very easy to get down on Tony Blair or John Howard or George Bush - Lets no go there - But I know the difference between rigt an wrong - I can make choices based on my individual xposure to life - but really - it defies logic to suggest that I can comprehend the mind of a 12 year old "devout" AK47 toting musilim- ( brainwashed or just exposed ?)
Such is religion - such is "power Control George Orwell did not invemt mind control
Tassie Dave
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