Is this what he intended:
"Many scientists believe this is the sixth great wave - the sixth mass extinction to affect life on Earth.
We were not here for any of the previous mass extinctions, but this time our sheer preponderance is driving the slide to oblivion.
We have more than doubled our numbers in half a century, and that is the most obvious reason why there is less room for any other species.
We are taking their living room to grow our food, their food to feed ourselves. We are exploiting them, trading in them, squeezing them to the margins of existence - and beyond."
If your god created all these species, why doesn't he seem to care about them? Where in your religious text does he ask you not to wipe out his creations? Why is he so concerned about you coveting your neighbour's ass, while not being in the slightest bit bothered if you destroy thousands of the creatures he so lovingly designed?
All answers should be emailed to foranomnipotentbeinggodisincrediblyshortsighted@fukotherspecies.com
Monday, June 05, 2006
Did Your God Know?
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55 comments:
Don't you think we should look to OURSELVES for the answer to that one. As you said, "We are exploiting them, trading in them, squeezing them to the margins of existence - and beyond."
Man makes his own choices. Now we must live with them.
Yes, but why didn't your god mention it would be a problem? Surely he would have known we would start destroying the planet and put a commandment in to warn us.
Or is it perhaps that middle-eastern peasants from the 1st century AD couldn't see that far into the future.
Why is it that this modern problem is "man's problem" whereas murder, theft, and worshipping the wrong god are deemed worthy of biblical intervention?
What is your common sense answer to this, dabich? Maybe your god can't see into the future...
Sure, all problems are man's problems. We just have to remember to ask God's help in solving them....murder, theft, and so on. We make our own bed, we lie in it.
Common sense would help in the long run, but when man's greed overcomes his common sense, this is the result.
CHOICE, Simon. We all make our own choices.
Don't you?
You are so bitter towards God. You want Him to solve all the problems in the world today, yet you cannot admit He exists.
"Why didn't God command us to protect His beloved animal species?"
The answer is really simple: He did.
In Genesis 1.28, God shows one of His commands for humanity (I believe Gen 4-11 is more symbolic and figurative than literal, and "Adam" is the Hebrew word for mankind, so I believe Genesis 1.28 shows us God's command to all of mankind, man, woman and child): ""Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
God commanded us to fill the earth with our species, for we are separate from the animals simply because God took us (measly primates) and breathed divinity into us (imago dei). He commanded us, in synch with our growing in the earth, to subdue the earth, to rule over creation. Sadly, a lot of people (especially Christians) miss the point of what is being commanded here. God is not giving us license to do as we please with creation; no, He is commanding us to nourish and love creation as if she were our own child.
Because of our sinful natures, though, we care more for our own interests than for the interests of creation. We would rather be comfortable than preserve the beautiful world God created. That is why the planet is being massacred slowly through time--human selfishness. The fault for this lies with humanity, and God actually hates this! I myself am a Christian who takes seriously God's command to take care of the earth, and I see environmentalism as an aspect of my faith in God.
Although we are raping the world, eventually God will step in and make it beautiful again. I believe He will return all the extinct creatures to earth and make creation flourish again. He will completely restore the universe to its original beauty and goodness, and creation is one of the key aspects of this restoration.
God really cares for the creation. The scripture says He loves it a mother eagle loves her babies. He finds joy in it, and I am sure it breaks His heart when we destroy it; He allows this to happen, though, because of the free will He gives us.
I hope that shed some light on the subject, my friend.
Although we are raping the world, eventually God will step in and make it beautiful again.
I really hope this idea doesn't catch on or we are truly fucked.
Darker, you quote from Genesis seems to suggest we go and multiply and treat other species as our playthings - which is exactly why we are destroying the planet.
How you can twist that to make out your god actually is telling us to be nice to other species, only the truly deluded will understand.
It is the very fact that we have "multiplied" by 100% (doubled) in the lasdt 50 years that we are on the brink of anihilating this planet.
Your god has really fucked up, dude.
Dabich, as you know, I think we should look to ourselves for all our problems. The fact that your god did not see inot the future is just yet another nail in his long-overdue coffin.
We'll see who the coffin belongs to :)
But yes, Simon, you are right. We have only ourselves to blame, and ourselves to rely on to correct the problem. It wouldn't hurt to ask HIS help, tho.
And now I need to work on a flooring bid, so I shall catch up with you later :)
But I like the taste of monkey brain...
Here's a though just skimming across my mind...
The earth is a hot rock with a living skin. The skin, like any other organism, gets old and loses the capacity to control it's own cells. Cells mutate and become cancer, and this is where we come in. The cancer takes over the whole organism and kills it, taking everything else with it, only to become feed for the next organism to feed on.
Just a thought. I am tired from hunting white rhino all day.
Humanity is a force of nature creating the latest "great extinction". Yeah, it's pretty cool we are destructive a very very big meteorite. I personally think we should celebrate that.
Any thoughts? How about a National Slaughter A Member of an Endangered Species Day?
agree to disagree.
that is all...
i love it when people drop by my blog and assume they know what i believe based on one short post! i don't believe in god. i also don't believe religion can rightfully be blamed for all the problems in the world. thanks for making it harder to defend liberals against accusations that we're anti-religion and look down our long sophisticated noses at people who are religious.
:wondering where that came from:
:wondering where that came from:
follow the link to the post at my blog and read the comments on that post.
here. i got the link reference wrong in my first comment.
ROFL.
emily1, my dear colleague:
don't you know that the art of trolling involves reading only ONE post on a weblog, and based on that ONE post, launching an invective of bile and snark? our friend simon has mastered that fine art. in fact, he has gone above and beyond the call of duty and managed to call an author of a web log written by a bunch of secular humanists/athiests /agnostics a "deluded christ psychotic." brilliant! magnificent!
(congratulations. it's a slow day and work, and i have plenty of time to be a nuisance today. cheers!)
simon,
if no God exists, what's there to complain about? sounds like natural selection is doing its work and while we may have thought we were the dominant species, there is obviously a force greater than us that will take us out. there's nothing moral here, rather just a practical issue for us...if we choose to survive, we need to re-evaluate our method of attack upon this "force" and change some things to extend our survival.
however, if God exists, this does become a moral concern. suddenly, we are destroying that which God created. adam, even before sin, was placed in the garden to "cultivate and keep it." that is not language for destruction, but language for care.
what you are seeing, if God does not exist, is simply evolution in process...survival of the fittest and you have nothing to be upset about.
however, if God exists, you are seeing a disobedience to the very first command that God gave man...sin! and guess what, this destruction is a sign of the seriousness and severity of sin.
sin leads to destruction.
God has made a way, through the offering of His own Son to take that destruction off of us. repent from your sin and trust Jesus for the forgiveness of your sin, so that destruction does not have to fall upon you.
I can't believe the email address actually works!!! LMAO!!!
See this is the marvellously seductive thing about faith, isn't it? You can mould it to any shape you want. So man gets blamed for the bad stuff, while god takes credit for the good. Dabich talks about common sense. Eh? Where has common sense ever come into religion? I thought that was the whole point of faith — that it doesn't have to make sense. Keep ruffling those feathers, Simon.
Atheist Mum ~ have YOU no common sense? I'm sure you do. Do you not use it? I'm sure you do. As I use mine. Ruffling feathers? I laugh out loud at some of the ways Simon gets me to renounce my belief in God. Do I attach his unbelief? No. I respect his stance. Do I try to change your mind? No, I respect your views.
Danny2 has a valid point. YOU say CHRISTIANS twist things around. I say, Danny2 pointed out to Simon how SIMON AND YOU) twists things around. If it's bad, it's "our" God's fault. If it's good, it's the good of Science. You know what? That's bullshit. Use the brain God gave you for once and see what the man is trying to say before you get all smart-assed with him.
Damn, now I'm pissed. My whole facking point is that organized religion is corrupt. Yet you don't take the time to read what I post and criticize my "common sense". Well, stuff your opinion and stuff what you don't believe. I'm taking my common sense and going home.
oh no she di'int!!!
YES SHE DID!!!
Everyone was getting very uppity yesterday. Perhaps I hit a raw nerve...
I love Emily 1 & 2, although they are kinda scary. I left a comment on their blog addresssed to "Christ Psychotic" and they assumed it was directed at them - whose fault is that?
Danny, I'm just curious why your god actively encourages mankind to multiply himself without the foresight to see that in the last 50 years we would go from 3bil to 6 bil people, and that would then put us on the brink of creating a mass extinction of all his lovely creations.
The guy must live with his head up his ass. Either that or he strangely has the same perspective of the world as a 1st century Palistinian peasant.
Dabich, us atheists surely believe none of the problems of the world are due to any gods. And most think the problems man faces now are mostly our own making. How can we blame your god for anything if we don't believe in him.
Does that mean we can't point out the glaring flaws in your belief system.
One can point out anything one wants. No one nor anything in this world is perfect, least of all me. My belief in God may have flaws, so, tough. It's my belief. I feel it's the best one out there.
I do not like being personally attacked and when I am pushed past the limit, I push back. Simple as that.
However, and I have said this before (if one cares to read what I have to say), THIS IS THE ONLY WORLD WE HAVE, WE MAY AS WELL TRY TO GET ALONG. And take care of it while we're at it.
Damn bid still isn't done, that's what I have to look forward to Tuesday morning. YUCK.
I'm not sure anyone likes being personally attacked. The problem is, people don't realise their beliefs might conflict with anothers, so simply by stating your beliefs you are attacking another's.
What do you do about that?
Shut my mouth. I suppose that will have to do.
I personally welcome having my beliefs attacked - one way to test 'em. So feel free...
Second thought, I think it's called diplomacy. Something I also try to practice.
Nope, it's not me.
Besides, I said personally, not my beliefs.
How do you separate you and your beliefs?
A gay person my be upset to think you think his sexual activity is "unnatural", for example.
So what do you do? Keep it to yourself when talking to your gay friends - which seems dishonest to me. It would be like me being rascist but keeping quiet about it when I'm around my black friends.
Or do you just hope it doesn't come up in conversation?
I personally can't live my life like that. I know it certainly isn't practical. The amount of times I've shot my career in the foot because I've spoken my mind...
I don't keep it quiet that I don't like the gay thing. But I also make it clear that I love or care for the person (if it's true that I do) regardless. Just like they may not like my outspokenness, but they care for me in spite of it.
We have a gay man working where I work. I told him up front that I wasn't comfortable with his choice, but it was his business and I'd defend his right to his choice. Cuz it's true.
Also, Ziggy knows my stance on the subject, but I adore that guy cuz he has such a good heart, and he's a wonderful person.
Meybe he thinks I have a big mouth, I don't know, but so far he puts up with me!
So do YOU (put up with me), so there must be SOMETHING you like about me!
You? I love your wit. I can't say it's your smile as I've never seen it ;)
Thinking about your question, Simon,
"How do you separate you and your beliefs?"
Maybe it's not about separating, maybe it's more about tolerance, and accepting people for who and what they are, instead of their beliefs. Live and let live.
I find it difficult to separate people from their beliefs. I mean, just because Himmler threw fantastic parties and and was the master of witty one-liners doesn't mean I should forget about his embarrassing interest in the industrialised slaughter of Jewish people, does it?
We're not talking about slaughter with most every day people we come into contact with. How many wild murderous types have you met???
Where do you draw the line, then?
What I mean is, if you're uncomfortable with someone's beliefs or lifestyle, yet there's nothing so wrong with what they're doing that you have to stop being friends, your discomfort is probably misplaced.
It probably says more about your prejudice than their lifestyle.
Maybe so, but if we're talking about my comfort, then that's what I'm worried about :)
You're being a nut job, Simon. Using extremes for comparison.
Cut the crap.
No, I'm not, actually. I'm using extremes to illustrate my point.
I kinda get the sense that you often are on the point of understanding my point, but quickly recoil... perhaps out of fear that that would set you on some kind of slipper slope.
My point is - if you can be friends with gay people, surely that means their sexual preferences aren't truly wrong.
Himmler being a mass-murderer is clearly wrong and so I assume you would not be friends with such a person, no matter how charming you found them.
See what I'm getting at? The only reason, perhaps, you are prejudice against gay sexual activity is because of what the bible says (which is also what your Christian-based culture says).
You're uncomfortable with it, but that's because you've been brought up that way. Yet you have friends who are gay and have seen they are not monsters or evil-doers.
My point is valid.
i actually have to side with simon that separating a person from their beliefs is rather dangerous.
but where simon and i differ is in what looks like he believes their should be a "cosmic curve system." that certain people can be labeled "monsters and evildoers" while the rest of us are pretty good people who have some minor faults.
the bible teaches homosexuality is wrong. it is wrong. i would tell a homosexual that homosexuality is sin if they asked me.
but why is it i don't completely shun and persecute a homosexual then? if i befriend one, am i betraying my belief system?
not at all. because if i also believe the Word of God states that i am a sinner. my pride, my lust, my anger does no less to separate me from the will of God than the homosexual. in reality, we should all be labeled monsters and evildoers.
and monsters and evildoers deserve punishment in the lake of fire. but God is so merciful and kind as to offer us His Son to pay that penalty for us if we would simply repent of our sin and trust Christ.
i don't think it is wise to separate a person from their beliefs, even if at times our actions betray our genuine beliefs.
"My point is - if you can be friends with gay people, surely that means their sexual preferences aren't truly wrong."
Dude, I didn't say they were wrong, I said I didn't agree with it, it's unnatural to ME. Wrong isn't in my scope, I am not perfect, therefore I cannot pass judgement.
You are using what K calls apples and oranges. In my words...extremes.
Murderers and gays are not even in the same scope, or boat, as you would say.
Invalid point :)
Aren't you muddling the words "wrong" and "don't agree with". I assume you don't agree with gay sex because you feel in some way it is "wrong". OK, you may think it's not as wrong as murder, and so you don't feel it is a big enough wrong to make you avoid gay people.
Perhaps you see it as wrong on the same level as it is wrong for a married man to have an affair - it's his business, but you don't agree with what he's doing.
In other words, you think it's wrong, but not enough to lose a friend.
I still contest that your belief they are doing something wrong will effect your relationship with that person - you will think less of them, and perhaps trust them less.
Nothing is black and white - Himmler is an extreme I used to illustrate my point. Takes few steps down - what about a family member who killed a man for sleeping with his wife?
You might think they have done a terrible thing, but you might also have some sympathy. You might question your friendship with them, but then again you might get over it - particularly if the man showed regret.
How about if he just beat the crap out of the interloper but stopped short of killing him - you might even support him.
To cut a long story short - you think gay sex is wrong because it's unnatural. Well, driving a car is unnatural - is that wrong?
dabich,
why don't you agree with gay sex? i'd agree with simon here. if you don't agree with it because you find it unnatural...that has no standing.
however, if you believe it is wrong because God says it is in the Bible, then you are not passing judgement (for you are right, you are not perfect) but are allowing He who is perfect to pass judgement.
and again, by passing judgement, i do not believe that has too look as simon has drawn...that i look down upon the person or think them lower...for in my honesty i see that i have sinned as well.
therefore, i encourage them to do what the Bible says we must do, and what i need to do...
i encourage them to repent and trust Christ.
Simon said: "Aren't you muddling the words "wrong" and "don't agree with". I assume you don't agree with gay sex because you feel in some way it is "wrong".
No, I am not muddling anything, YOU are assuming something that is not true and I did not say. It's just not natural to me. I can't say it's wrong, that's not for me to say! Don't put words in my mouth, Simon.
Simon said: "Perhaps you see it as wrong on the same level as it is wrong for a married man to have an affair - it's his business, but you don't agree with what he's doing. In other words, you think it's wrong, but not enough to lose a friend"
No and no again! Again, you are putting ideas and words in my mouth that are not my own. A married man who has an affair is legally at fault when doing so. It is legally wrong. There are no laws against gay sexual relations.
Simon said: "I still contest that your belief they are doing something wrong will effect your relationship with that person - you will think less of them, and perhaps trust them less."
You sure are one overbearing person today, telling me what to think, how I think, and in general, trying to be ME. Wow!
Simon said: "To cut a long story short - you think gay sex is wrong because it's unnatural. Well, driving a car is unnatural - is that wrong?"
Again, you are mixing apples and oranges and in general making no sense whatsover.
Please!
Danny 2 said:
"why don't you agree with gay sex? i'd agree with simon here. if you don't agree with it because you find it unnatural...that has no standing."
Danny2, it has no standing? Says WHO? you? Who are you to speak for me? Your point has no standing.
I would never look down on someone for being gay. Their preferences have nothing to do with me.
dabich,
i think you are confusing things quite a bit at this point.
i would argue none of our preferences mean squat. it's all just opinion and you two are probably smarter than i am, but there are people who are probably smarter than you. we could run in circles with that one.
but, if right and wrong are determined by the morality set up by God (revealed in His Word) then i am not playing judge or ruling over anyone. i am simply striving to live according to His standards, and am fully dependant upon the gospel since i regularly fall short.
on the extremes, your morality view does not work again. what if a mentally ill person decides to go on a murder rampage because they don't see anything wrong with that? can you really say they were wrong? if you argue they were because they were mentally ill, who are you to consider them mentally ill? there must be an objective standard.
and that standard is not the law of man. otherwise, drinking alcohol was morally wrong for a brief period of time in our country. yet slavery was morally fine for a period of time as well. it can not be based upon laws established by man, but has to be established by the Morally Pure One, and He has revealed those standards to us.
Well, Danny, as God's laws don't work for atheists like our man, Simon here, I can say that your views mean squat ;)
But again, you're missing MY point. Simon was putting words and ideas in my mouth. I clarified my position on my thoughts and feelings. Period.
I can't bring Christian morals into arguments with Simon, he invalidates them immediately.
There are too many variables out there to give a black and white overall guide for what's right and wrong. That doesn't change my stance on homosexuality.
I can't bring Christian morals into arguments with Simon, he invalidates them immediately.
Is it that easy?
There are too many variables out there to give a black and white overall guide for what's right and wrong.
Why does the bible try to do it, then?
Simon said:
"If your god created all these species, why doesn't he seem to care about them? Where in your religious text does he ask you not to wipe out his creations? Why is he so concerned about you coveting your neighbour's ass, while not being in the slightest bit bothered if you destroy thousands of the creatures he so lovingly designed?"
Right here you are blaming God for man's selfishness. You do it often. Maybe in a sarcastic way, but you do.
Simon said:
"I can't bring Christian morals into arguments with Simon, he invalidates them immediately.
Is it that easy?"
I keep God out if it most of the time, as you don't believe in Him. You discount anything to do with God as having any substance, so, in respect to your beliefs, I don't bring Him into it. :) Easy? For you, yes, as you don't believe.
Simon Asked:
"There are too many variables out there to give a black and white overall guide for what's right and wrong.
Why does the bible try to do it, then?
I didn't write it. Go ask them. :)
Here again, I want to reiterate, I am unhappy with organized religion. SO I just live my life the best way I can. Trying to be the best person I can, and using common sense.
Dabich, that's either disingenuous, or stupid.
Surely, you know my point here is: if your god doesn't mention we should look after his species -- either he doesn't care or he doesn't exist (you know I think the latter).
Where do I blame a god for destroying them? We did it, I'm merely asking why your god hasn't done anything about it.
You have no answer.
You discount anything to do with God as having any substance, so, in respect to your beliefs, I don't bring Him into it.
Don't be silly - my whole blog is an attack on religion! I don't respect people's beliefs here. And if people have a problem with that, they don't come back.
If you don't want to bring him into it - that's on your account, not mine.
Trying to be the best person I can, and using common sense.
Me too. Of course, the problems arise when people don't agree on what's best.
LOL, OK, Now I'm stupid, thank you very much.
I don't think God should have to tell us to respect and take care of our world. Does someone have to tell you to wipe your ass after you use the loo? Common sense, Simon.
I agree with you on the point that I don't have the answers. I've admitted that several times before. What I DO know is that humanity is selfish for the most part. Me included. But at least I do try, every day, to do better.
And yes, I was being silly in my last response in some cases, on purpose.
You decide where :)
Now go read my This Too Shall Pass, as I've posted just for you.
Does someone have to tell you to wipe your ass after you use the loo? Common sense, Simon.
No, but the only good stuff in the bible is common sense to me - I don't need telling not to murder or steal.
But it does seem rather more people DO need to be told to look after the planet than not to steal or murder. It seems your god got his priorities wrong.
Well, I can say that not everyone is this world is gifted with common sense. Some of the most book-educated people have no common sense and are, in a scary sense, helpless.
There you go blaming God for man's inadequacies.
"But it does seem rather more people DO need to be told to look after the planet than not to steal or murder. It seems your god got his priorities wrong."
So, without laying any blame whatsoever at his door, why do you think your god forgot to tell us not to fuck his planet up?
Not only did he forget, he actively encourages us to multiply as much as possible and use the other species for our own needs.
Is it just possible this god has the outlook of a 1st century Palistinian?
Which would be very odd, indeed, for an omnipotent creator who exists outside of physical space and time.
Don't you think?
I could give you the cheeky answer and say I try not to (think) it gives me a headache.
But then, that's true. I think a lot about it, and I do get a headache.
I don't have all the answers, wish I did.
But then, if I did, I'd shut you up and I sure don't want to do that!
:)
Great answer. You're full of complements today. Did you win the lottery?
well, it would be odd that God just thought like a 1st century palestinian, since the ot came way before the first century a.d.
and when you say God told us to multiply, i assume you are talking in genesis when He tells adam and eve to be fruitful and multiply. did you ignore a couple paragraphs earlier when He placed adam in the garder to cultivate and care for it?
I wish.
Simon sees what he wants to, just like us misguided Christians do, Danny.
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